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Our Guest:
Amanda Lamb is a veteran television crime reporter with more than three decades of experience and is also a podcast host and producer. She works for award-winning WRAL TV in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Amanda Lamb is a veteran television crime reporter with more than three decades of experience and is also a podcast host and producer. She works for award-winning WRAL TV in Raleigh, North Carolina.
Amanda currently hosts and produces a weekday morning podcast called the WRAL Daily Download. She has also hosted and produced two true crime podcasts and has another on the way. Follow the Truth was released in 2021 and won the prestigious regional Edward R. Murrow award for excellence in journalism. What Remainswas released in 2022. The Killing Month is scheduled for release in the summer of 2023.
Amanda has written and published a dozen books. Her fictional murder mystery series includes: Dead Last, Lies That Bindand No Wake Zone. Amanda is also the author of three true crime books based on murder cases she covered for WRAL including: Deadly Dose, Evil Next Door, and Love Lies. She has published four memoirs, one about caregiving and three about parenting, including: The Living Room, I Love You to God and Back, Girls Gone Child, and Smotherhood, and two children’s books, I Love You to God and Back and We Are Not the Same. Amanda writes a monthly blog on WRAL’s website called “Go Ask Mom.”
To learn more about Amanda and her work go to www.alambauthor.com. You can also follow her on social media.
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Episode Overview:
This episode of "Exit Strategy" features Amanda Lamb, a seasoned reporter from WRAL, as she discusses various aspects of crime and domestic violence and her experiences in reporting and authoring books on these topics.
Key Discussion points:
- True Crime Books: Lamb talks about her books, including 'Deadly Dose' and 'Love Lies,' which delve into high-profile murder cases involving domestic violence.
- Domestic Violence Insights: The conversation highlights the complex nature of domestic violence, touching upon its psychological aspects, including financial control and emotional abuse.
- Legal Perspectives: Lamb and the hosts discuss the legal implications and challenges in domestic violence cases, emphasizing the difficulty in prosecuting non-physical forms of abuse.
- Impact on Children: The episode underscores the lasting impact of domestic violence on children, with Lamb discussing this theme in her mystery series and real-world cases.
- Investigative Challenges: Lamb highlights advancements in DNA technology and their role in solving cold cases, sharing insights from her true crime podcast projects.
- Personal Projects: Amanda discusses her upcoming projects, including a book set in the mountains about a missing hiker and a podcast about women transforming their lives post-50.
Conclusion:
The episode provides a comprehensive look at domestic violence, its societal impact, and the role of media in bringing these stories to light, driven by Amanda Lamb’s extensive experience in crime reporting and storytelling.
Creators & Guests
Host
Guest
What is Ex-it Strategy?
Your no bullsh$t guide to divorce with experienced attorneys from New Direction Family Law and guests and professionals who have been there. Unfiltered discussions to help you move from victim to victorious and from bitter to better.
Jennifer Bordeaux: [00:00:00] don't be afraid to reinvent yourself and don't kill yourself.
Don't kill your spouse. Divorce them if you don't wanna be with them anymore,
Amanda Lamb: these are the bullet points you take away. We'll put those in the notes, right? Yeah,
Welcome to the Exit Strategy. Your No Bullshit Guide to Divorce with the experienced attorneys from New Direction family law, unfiltered discussions to help you move from victim to victorious and from bitter to better.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Hi everyone.
Amanda Lamb: I'm
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Elizabeth Stevenson. I'm a partner and a family law attorney with New Direction Family Law, and I have my sidekick here today.
Jennifer Bordeaux: Yes, everyone. I am Jen Bordeaux. Normally we have the other attorney and Elizabeth pod partner in crime, Sarah Hink here.
But you know, ti the season of giving when we're recording this and that includes germs. So Sarah was not able to join us. Today, but I'm Jen, the Director of Public Relations at New Direction Family Law. Amanda, we are so excited to have you here,
Amanda Lamb: us today. Well, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here on the other side of the mic.
It's kind of nice for a change.
Jennifer Bordeaux: Yeah, and we unless [00:01:00] you have been living under a rock, especially if you're in the triangle area, you do not know Amanda Lamb. She is with WRAL and has been for
Amanda Lamb: how many years? So I've been with WRAL for 29 years. And I was a TV reporter covering crime for most of my career.
And then in the last year and a half have been focusing on podcasting. So I've done a couple True Crime podcasts and a daily news show. Awesome. And she's also an author
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: too?
Amanda Lamb: Yes. Yes. I am an author. So I have 12 books three True Crimes and Three Mysteries. You've got the Go Ask
Jennifer Bordeaux: Mom blog that you've You're on all the deal.
I'm still, I'm
Amanda Lamb: still all writing about Yeah. Being Well, I was, now I write about being an empty nester. Mm-Hmm. But have always written about my kids, which they love. You can imagine that, right?
Jennifer Bordeaux: And your mom was
Amanda Lamb: a family law attorney as well? My mom was a family lawyer, so I grew up hearing lots of stories, you know, about family law.
And then she passed away in 2012 and I was. Involved in the closing of her firm. So I got to know a lot of her [00:02:00] clients and, and hear their stories. So I, I, I know a little bit about it. Got it.
Jennifer Bordeaux: Yeah. Yeah. Never adult days what lifetime movies are made of or true crime novels are made of. For sure. For sure.
Which is what we, we wanted to bring you in here today to chat about as well as you have. You mentioned you have several novels and a couple few of those are true crime correct novels. So tell us 'cause they're local to the
Amanda Lamb: area. Yeah. So I have covered so many. High profile cases for WRL and you know, unfortunately, as both of you know, a lot of them involve domestic violence.
And so my very first book, deadly Dose, was actually about a woman who was convicted of killing her husband. So that's not the norm. Right. Ann Miller was convicted of killing her husband, Eric Miller, with Poison with arsenic. And so that's kind of a little bit off the beaten track. Most cases that I've covered over the years have involved.
Men killing their wives. Most notably I did a, a book called Love Lies about a Murder and Carry. Mm-Hmm. [00:03:00] That happened in 2008. And that was a man named Brad Cooper, who was eventually pled guilty. He was convicted, it was overturned. And then Heled guilty to killing his wife. Nancy Cooper, right. And that unfortunately is the type of case that I've seen many, many times over the years.
And there's also many of those cases that never get publicity for whatever reason. Right. But domestic violence is still a very real problem in America. And, you know, there are resources out there, but obviously it continues to happen, right?
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: And we deal with that every day for the most part. But I grew up here and so I remember there, there was like a spate of them for.
Like a few years, like there was, was it Jason Young? Yes. So right then we had Michael Peterson and
Amanda Lamb: and you know, I think that the common denominator in a lot of them is that the men who kill their wives or girlfriends. Partners always believe they're smarter. Mm-Hmm. [00:04:00] Than the cops. Absolutely. They believe they're smarter than the prosecutor and they believe they're going to get away with it.
And a lot of them are smart. I mean, they're, you know, they have good careers. They're, they are smart people. But you know, in this day and age, especially with Mm-hmm. Advancements in DNA with cameras everywhere, surveillance cameras everywhere. Your phone is tracking every little thing you do, you know, whether it's text messaging or emails or GPS, it's very, very difficult right?
Not to leave a digital footprint or a DNA footprint at a crime scene and, and for you not to be found out eventually. Right.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: So do you, is there a 'cause it's always amazed me, it's like as a family law attorney, just. You get divorced, don't kill this person. Is there a common denominator
Amanda Lamb: between them? Well, I, I, I, I think it's money and, you know, a lot of the cases that I've covered have involved infidelity on, on both the part of the defendant and the victim.
Mm-Hmm. But. There's [00:05:00] plenty of people that are unfaithful to their spouses who never kill them. Correct. In fact, I would argue that most people who are unfaithful to their spouses never kill them, and many of them stay married. Right. So I don't think that's the thing. I think that's maybe a symptom of the situation of the, of the marriage deteriorating it's money.
I think it really comes down to money. Even when people are fighting over child custody, which I'm sure you see all the time. All the time. I think. A lot of men specifically, because those are the cases that I have covered, do not want to pay. They don't want to pay for two households. I mean, it's expensive to get divorced when you're living in one house together.
You have one set of bills. When somebody moves out Mm-Hmm. You all of a sudden have two sets of bills. So either you're not gonna be able to live the way you were living. Right. Or you know, if you're lucky to have enough money to live in separate households, that's great, but that's not the norm norm.
Right, right. So I do think it's money. [00:06:00] I think it comes down to not wanting to pay and for some reason thinking that this is a good choice and obviously. You know, it's not morally, ethically, you know, legally all of those reasons, it's not a good choice. But, but the bottom line is you're not gonna get away with it, and your child or children are now going to lose both parents.
Right. That
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: was a very good point that
Amanda Lamb: you made. Yeah. Right, right. And, and that's, you know, so that should be the end game. They should be thinking about thinking this through, you know, what are the, what, what's, what's the final result here? But,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: you know, like, you know, domestic violence is so secretive and so pervasive.
Ha did when you interviewed people in these book, did somebody say, oh, he was a, I never saw anything, or I didn't, yeah, he was the nicest guy I ever,
Amanda Lamb: you know what's really interesting is in a lot of the cases that I've covered. There was no physical violence. Right. So it was more emotional and you know, cruelty with words.
Mm-hmm. If you will. But even that [00:07:00] does not indicate somebody's going to kill you. Correct. Obviously. So in a lot of the cases, the first time there's ever a physical altercation is actually the murder. Now there's other types of control in domestic violence situations, right? So there's financial control.
Mm-Hmm. If the woman, for example, doesn't work, which the, in the Cooper case, that was the situation, right? They were from Canada. She didn't have a visa. And, you know, not allowing your spouse to have money for things like groceries or putting gas in the car or going out to dinner. Mm-Hmm. Or buying clothing for your children.
Cutting you off Right. From family members. That's a big one. Mm-Hmm. Cutting you off from friends, not allowing you to have a support network. Mm-Hmm. So there's all sorts of types of abuse that are not physical. Absolutely. And so then how do you know, or what, what is the thing that tells you, you know, you need to get out?
And, and I think that's hard. And I think what's really tough for attorneys is a woman comes to you, she [00:08:00] says, oh no, no, he's never done anything to me. But there's gotta be always a part of you when you start to hear her stories that says, oh, I don't like what I'm hearing. And then you are thinking to yourself, do I tell her to go, do I tell her to leave?
Because, you know, there's so many property right issues there, right? Child custody issues. But is she in danger? And that's the big question.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Well, that's the, you know, the way the statute is written is it's not whether you or I feel in danger, it's whether that person does, but. You know, you have to read very far down to say if, does it rise to the level of harassment?
'cause financial abuse is not under the statute. Yeah. Emotional abuse for the most part. Not, you know, verbal abuse. Not, which
Amanda Lamb: is really unfortunate. It is. It's not recognized Correct. As abuse.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: Right. And so that's hampers people. And once they leave. They can be cut off from money. They don't have a place to go.
They, you can come get their kid, they're gonna come back home. So why would, would they, many layers
Amanda Lamb: leave so many layers, right? So many layers. And you know, it's interesting, when I first wrote the true crime books, [00:09:00] which was many years ago, I would go to book signings and people would raise their hand and they would say, well, didn't the victim drink too much?
Didn't she have an affair? And I would say, wait a minute, hold up. Let's, let's talk about this for a minute. That's like the short skirt argument. It's right. In a rape case, right? Right. It doesn't matter what your spouse did to you, you can't kill them. That's right. There's no, there's no court, there's no court in America that's going to say, oh, okay.
She wasn't very nice to you. Right. You know, again, all of those things are part of a deteriorating marriage, but. The solution is never going to be violence. It, it's, that's never gonna work. No, but
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: that may be all they think they have. But
Amanda Lamb: yeah. And I think another point that we talked about off mic was premeditation.
So. Unfortunately, over the years, people have called domestic violence murders crimes of Passion. Mm-Hmm. And that's a [00:10:00] really offensive title for a domestic violence murder because it's a murder, it's a homicide, and there is no passion. If you love somebody, you're not killing them because you love them so much.
You don't want somebody else to have them. I mean, you're killing them because you want them out of the way. Right. And that's the definition of murder. Right. So in North Carolina, premeditation, which is the standard for first degree murder doesn't have to be more than just a few seconds, that in that moment while you were having an altercation with somebody, you decided you wanted them dead.
And so that's premeditation. So it's not like, oh, I planned this for a week, or I planned this. You know, for a couple days it's you were in an altercation and you decided you didn't think, well, maybe this is gonna kill them. You thought, I think I, I want this person. Gone. Gone. Right? So so that's another important.
Part of the law. I mean, obviously that shouldn't be the, the only deterrent. Right., [00:11:00]
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: I always thought it was money too, but I thought it was because they have a $500,000 life insurance policy. I mean, I say to clients all the time, two households [00:12:00] can't live as one.
You know, you can't do this or that. Right. But it never occurred to me that somebody was gonna kill somebody over that.
Amanda Lamb: Well, and, and again, I mean. What's $500,000? And I don't mean that. Well, I mean No, I know, I hear what you're saying. I mean that like, like it's, people have also a very unreasonable understanding of money, right?
Right. They think. Half a million dollars is gonna like, change their lives. Change their lives, right. Their lives. You know, you get taxes taken out. You've got, you've got many, many years left of your life, right? To support yourself, to support your children. That's not gonna cut it for most people. Right.
You know, but they're not thinking, they're not thinking that way. So, you know, I do always. Think the life insurance thing is just the ruse, the bomb. But, but it's amazing to me when they all do have it and it's always something that, you know, is a little bit over the top and you think, well, we just took the policy out last week, but it doesn't mean anything.
Just a coincidence. You know? It's just a coincidence that she fell off the bridge, you know? And it's like, it's like, it's crazy. But I do think [00:13:00] we've gotten I think police departments, sheriffs. Offices I think they're getting better training. You really think so? I do. I do. But
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: are they
Amanda Lamb: internalizing that?
I mean, I, I hope so. Especially the younger officers. I, I do think they're get getting better training and so hopefully that, along with the tools, the better tools that we have, right? The technology, the DNA, so on and so forth, that they'll be able to solve these cases. You know, faster and, and recognize them right away for what they are.
And you know, they always say, and I've said this in every book I've ever written, that involves domestic violence. You always start close to the victim and then you go out in concentric circles. Mm-Hmm. So the husband, the boyfriend, you know, the partner, the live-in whatever. The roommate, that person's always gonna be number one, right?
And so if that person isn't stepping up and giving their DNA and giving their alibi and handing over their phone and their laptop, right? [00:14:00] There's a reason. There's a reason for that. Right, right. And, and, and it may just because they've watched too many lifetime movies and you know, they're like, I've got a lawyer up.
You know? But if you didn't do anything when innocent people when they know they're innocent, you know, they generally wanna help. Right. And they want the police. To, you know, find the person who did it. Right. Or if it's a suicide rule it as a suicide. Suicide. You know, and that's another thing, anytime somebody tries to stage a suicide, never works.
Never works. It's, it's al there's always something off about it. And so that's usually a situation where somebody gets caught. So,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: so we talk about children of that. If something like that would happen, have you ever interviewed as they've gotten older? Does 'cause sometimes they'll align with the parent who.
Was the murderer, you
Amanda Lamb: know? 'cause they just wanna have that connection. Right. You know? So I have dealt with many cases where there have been children, you know, either one or more children. And no, I haven't had that opportunity. But [00:15:00] interestingly, because it's such a fascinating topic to me, my mystery series, which, the main character is Maddie Anette. She's the adult survivor of what appears to be a domestic violence homicide. I won't give it all away. And so those books are dead Last Lies That Bind and No Wake Zone. And they were, they were written, I wrote them and they were published here. At a publisher in Durham.
And so that whole backstory really interested me and that's why I wrote about it in a fictionalized way. Right? So it's not based on any particular case but it's kind of, you know, a collection of all of the cases that I've covered because I do always feel for that. Child because they want, they want to love a parent.
And that's understandable. And, and I mean, how could you blame them for wanting to have a relationship with a parent? Right. You know, when
Jennifer Bordeaux: I think a great, or maybe. The biggest example I've seen of that was the Michael Peterson, [00:16:00] Susan, since it was, so, since they had the Netflix documentary. Sure, sure. Then the fictional series on HBO how those children who, and it was their stepmom, right.
And e even so how they were, they rallied to still support him and you know, but you could tell that there was still a battle going on with them in them around, yeah. Internal battle.
Amanda Lamb: Well,
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: your mind probably can't wrap your head around it, you know. No. That somebody. That I love that, love my mom or whoever could do
Amanda Lamb: that.
Right? And that's the thing that I would urge anybody, even if they're in a, you know, very bad relationship to think about that. If this is the person that brought your children into the world. Those children love that person. Mm-Hmm. And so the act of taking that person away from your children, you're punishing your children, you know?
My mom always, always used to, to talk about, you know, the things that people did to people in divorce. Mm-Hmm. And as you know, I mean, there's, there's horrible things about. You know, but if people would just stop, right? If they would just stop for one minute and think about how it affects their children, you know, maybe they would make a different [00:17:00] choice.
Because I think that's, that's, that's what happens. And I think it's gotta be horrible for those children. And maybe they don't believe that the, the parent did it, or maybe they don't wanna believe it, it believe it. Or maybe they do believe it, but they still wanna have a relationship with them. And you, you, I don't, you know, my mom always used to say, kids love their parents even.
Even parents who are abusive. Absolutely. Mm-Hmm. They do. Mm-Hmm. They do. Yeah. And you see it over and over in life, you know, where a, a parent will be abusive and then a child grows up and says, well, I still wanna have a relationship Right. With that parent. And, you know, they somehow get past that. Right, right.
But it's, it's, you know, it's a really horrible situation to imagine
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: it is. And. Fat. I mean, I just can't imagine what goes on somebody's
Amanda Lamb: brain,
Jennifer Bordeaux: but no, I can't either. Well, one and then the aftermath, right? Like, so even if you're so caught up in your emotions or whatever the case is. 'cause you know, it can be hard to take a step back and control your emotions, but then the aftermath of like what you actually just.
Did, you know, in some of the other cases where the folks like were from North Carolina, like the case [00:18:00] out in Colorado with the husband and wife and the two children, I did cover that as well. That whole situation. And you know, like afterwards then to sit there and
Amanda Lamb: act like, well, and one lie. Well, that's a, that's a cycle that's a middle for Yeah.
I mean, one lie gets another lie, obviously. Right. And. Um Right. And I think, you know it would be more convenient for us to believe that everybody who kills is a sociopath because then we don't have to admit That's right. We can justify it. We don't have to admit that regular people could do something like, could do something like that.
Mm-Hmm. I do think. There are many sociopaths who mm-hmm. You know, are, are killers obviously, and, and you can go look back at somebody's psychological profile or the dysfunctional mm-Hmm. Way they were raised and, and see that. But I also think that there's just plenty of people who look like everyone else, right.
That you may live in your neighborhood with, you may go to the, you know, work in an office with, you may go to church with. Go to whatever and go to the gym with, and those people could snap at some [00:19:00] point. Right. You know? Right.
Jennifer Bordeaux: It's gonna make me wanna just lock myself in my house and
Amanda Lamb: everything. Yeah. I mean, I will say though that a lot of domestic killers they're only dangerous to their spouse and the ones that are convicted that have a possibility of getting out.
And several cases that I've covered actually the books that I've done, they are. In two cases, they are one's out and one's going to get out. Mm-Hmm. And they will probably never get a speeding ticket. I mean, they will, they will fly beneath the radar Mm-hmm. For the rest of their lives because they took a risk and it didn't work well.
Well it didn't work out. And they're not, I mean, they're smart people. They know that that was a bad idea and so they're probably not ever going to get in trouble again. It's, it's, it's a, it's a little bit different than, you know, somebody that's just gone off the rails and killed people who are strangers.
Yeah.
Jennifer Bordeaux: And doing all of these, these interviews and writing your novels, have you ever gone home and then just taken a second look at your spouse? Like,
Amanda Lamb: well, he's, [00:20:00] he's pretty funny because he was in he's, he still is in recycling, but for a long time he ran a scrap yard. And he used to tell me the best way to get rid of a body in a car crusher, because the DNA would be so degraded, you know, that you wouldn't be able to, it's so hot.
And I was like, why are you telling me this? Yeah. Why are you telling me this? Did he go take
Jennifer Bordeaux: out a life insurance policy? Yeah.
Amanda Lamb: Yeah. So actually we, we. We cashed in my life insurance policy for something else. And so once we did that, I thought, oh, he doesn't really, yeah, you're good. Yeah. He, he's not a threat.
We're okay. We're okay. His doesn't want, he doesn't want my life insurance. Right, right.
Jennifer Bordeaux: One thing you mentioned too, whenever we were off mic, I'll use your trendy little term. Yeah. . You mentioned a little bit about how, you know, the children piece of it and then how eventually you're always gonna get caught.
And I know the other true crime novel that you wrote that wasn't a spouse. Situation, but it was the neighbor and it was, was it three and a half years or something that the dna NA Yeah. Was like he was evading somehow. Right. That
Amanda Lamb: was Drew Lanin. Yeah. And that was Stephanie Bennett. It was [00:21:00] it was a stranger case.
She was a young woman who was working for IBM. She was from Virginia. She was living with two friends in an apartment. It's unclear whether a window was left open or the lock was broken, but he was, they believed a serial killer. It was never proven. He, he killed himself in prison and they connected him to two murders at that time prior to that.
But he, he raped her. And then, she was alone in the apartment, so she wasn't found Mm-Hmm. For about another day because she didn't show up to work. Her boyfriend couldn't reach her. There, there were a lot of issues, but the DNA in that case was everywhere. And the problem was he had never been arrested.
Mm-Hmm. So his DNA was not in a database. And the other issue was that back then we didn't really have great databases and we didn't have states sharing information. And so that was kind of the beginning of developing a really strong [00:22:00] felony database in North Carolina for DNA. And that case, like you said, it took several years and they swabbed so many men in that neighborhood because they did start to believe it was a stranger situation, like a stalker.
And they were right, but you know, they had to find, they had to get the DNA and he had never given a swab, but they ended up, he worked for the state and they were, they ended up getting something from his lab where he worked, right, that that was a DNA match. Interesting. It's crazy. Yeah. But DNA is much better today.
The, the technology is really increased and I just, I've done three true crime podcasts, but one of them for WRL, one's called What Remains, and it's about connecting, missing and murdered people with unidentified remains that the state is holding. We ended up going and doing cases all over the country and all over the world.
Interesting. Because there were so many. But we started with Dr. Anne Ross, who is a forensic scientist. At at NC State. And so it was really [00:23:00] interesting because she was solving cases that are like 10, 20, 30, 40 years old because they can take a tiny bit of degraded DNA now and, and make those connections.
Interesting. That is
Jennifer Bordeaux: interesting. I used to be obsessed with Patricia Cornwell. Yeah. And her novels and the Body Farm. I know. That wasn't, that was, that wasn't fiction. That was a real place. But I was just used to be so obsessed. I used to wanna be a forensic pathologist.
Amanda Lamb: Clearly that didn't. Well she, uh uh.
Dr. Anne Ross is a fascinating person and she was in many of our episodes and you know, there's a lot written about her, so check her out. It will awesome to me like a modern day. Patricia Cornwell, right? I mean, she's like, she embodies that you go into her lab and there's skeletons everywhere and she's got a wall where she has different tools.
Like machete, you know, a, a knife, all these different things, hammers. And those are to see the marks on people's bodies, right? Yeah. On the bones. To see what they used, you [00:24:00] know, and she tells you very matter of factly, she's a scientist. Of course you'd have to, well, you,
Jennifer Bordeaux: you have to, you know, it's, I don't, I think it's
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: sort of like us.
It's like we hear stuff. Everybody, people come in my office every day and like just vomit. They're. Emotions. Sure. And so you sort of get, I, I never get unfazed by it, but you cannot let yourself
Amanda Lamb: get, you get, get, get little desensitized. Right. I mean, as a crime reporter for so many years, I kind of was the same way.
Mm-Hmm. And you have to somehow be able to look at things logically correct. Mm-Hmm. And especially as a journalist, to be able to relate that information back without emotion. Right. And so yeah, looking at autopsy photos. Yeah. All the different things coming. Getting to a crime scene, seeing the things that we've seen you, you really have to be able to do that.
You do. '
Jennifer Bordeaux: cause could you imagine if every initial consultation or client that you got every time they were so upset, you were there crying with them. Like nothing ever anybody, any good. We can't do that. A trauma surgeon, if every time somebody came in the ER with something and they freaked out about it, well that person, [00:25:00] another person, did.
You know what I mean? Yeah. You have
Amanda Lamb: to. I mean, you do. You have to learn to compartmentalize. You know? Mm-Hmm. But you also wanna be human, and so you kind of have to balance those two things. Absolutely. Absolute. Yeah. As, as you know, you wanna be compassionate. Absolutely. You wanna be kind. And so yeah, it it's a lot though.
It's a lot to carry on your shoulders.
Jennifer Bordeaux: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That does not mean that we are not compassionate for our clients and potential clients.
Amanda Lamb: Not at all. But I'm just saying, I know that you shoulder a lot and I'm sure you go home sometimes feeling like, wow, that was tough. And then my poor
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: dog when I go home such And your
Amanda Lamb: dog hears it off My therapy dog.
That's right. Yeah. You tell your dog everything. That's right. So what's your book coming? You got a book coming out, correct? So I'm not quite yet. I'm working on a book right now. Okay. So I have another thriller. Okay. It's a totally new set of characters. The main character is a reporter. I made her a newspaper reporter this time.
Just, you know, going a little, yeah, yeah, exactly. And it takes place in the mountains and it's about a missing hiker. I. And Oh, interesting. Yeah. Nice. It turns into a, is it
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: in the what, on the trail or
Amanda Lamb: is it here or so [00:26:00] we happened to be in Virginia at a place called Primland. Mm-Hmm. Over the pandemic.
Okay. And there was a missing hiker, and that just kind of put it in my head. Right. And of course, being a North Carolinian, I. I set everything here, here and because this is where I, you know, I know this area, right? But yeah, it, and, and the story, the real story has nothing to do with what I wrote.
Okay. I ended up making a. You know, my own story, sorry. But what's interesting and what I try am trying with this book is I have multiple points of view. So I have the investigator's point of view, I have the I have the journalist point of view. I have the point of view of the husband of the missing hiker.
Mm-Hmm. Because it's a woman. And then I have a manager of the resort, her point of view, so they kind of overlap. Oh, cool. So you get to see different, different sides of the story. So I love those style of books.
Jennifer Bordeaux: That's awesome. I
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: can I just ask, have you always, was it always crime
Amanda Lamb: that you, well, so I'm not sure if you and [00:27:00] I've ever talked about this.
So my dad was a district attorney. Okay. When I was growing up in Pennsylvania. And my mom was a family lawyer, right? And so I spent a lot of time in the courtroom. And in fact, my current True Crime podcast is called The Killing Month, August, 1978. And it's about a 45-year-old case in Pennsylvania, a group of outlaw hillbillies who we're stealing everything from Corvettes to art you name it.
And they, and tractors, that was their big thing. Tractors, they. Got caught. Well, some younger members of the gang started snitching to the, to the FBI and they started killing them. Oh. So they were accused of six murders. It was a very high profile case. My dad actually was the prosecutor. Oh no. And they made a book about it called At Close Range.
Oh. With Sean Penn and Christopher Walken. You can still get it, I think on Netflix. Oh man. She's in the eighties. I gotta watch that now. And then, my good friend and journalist, Bruce [00:28:00] Maddy, wrote a book about it called Jailing the Johnston Gang. And so it had never been a podcast, huh? So I made that podcast for WRL along with my producer Rachel McCarthy, and I think it's great.
I got really the best. Come on it. It's eight episodes. You can binge it. Okay. You can get it anywhere you get your podcast. But the best. Thing about it is I got to work with my 83-year-old dad. That is so that so cool. Cool. Share stories and share my memories because I was 13. Were you remember the, do you remember the trial?
Oh, I do. So, yeah. 'cause that's what DA's did. They took their kids to 13-year-old to a murder trial. 'cause that's a good idea. Yeah. I asked him that. I like, did you think it was a good idea? He's like, I'm sure I cleared it with your mom. But you know, it was fascinating to me and I think that was where the like seeds were sewn seed, goat stone, because I've always been I was a general assignment reporter, which is means jack of all trades, right?
You cover everything from the overturn tractor [00:29:00] trailer to the school board to the hurricane, right? But you get to concentrate if you're lucky, right. In your career. And so I ended up concentrating on crime, which is usually what, like rookie reporters do good. But I developed relationships with attorneys and prosecutors.
Mm-Hmm. And investigators and victims', families and defendants, families and judges. And so it just became my thing and I really enjoy the. Complexity of criminal cases. And then I also enjoy, I mean, this is gonna sound horrible, but the theater if you will. Mm-Hmm. I mean, you're taking this very emotional thing like we were talking about.
Mm-Hmm. And you bring it into a courtroom and then you kind of like, you know, all of a sudden it has to be very much about the facts. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. And it has to be very much about the law. And so it's so interesting to me how you can take something so intense. And, and put it into to that, you know, that framework.
But yeah, I've always loved it. So here, because I've been here so long, I have covered from the crime [00:30:00] through the investigation, through the arrest, through the trial, through the retrial, the, the release and the, the civil case. The wrongful death lawsuit. Yeah, the release, all of that. So I've had an opportunity to really see things.
You know, from many different perspectives. And I find it fascinating, but I also find a lot of things fascinating. I'm just really a curious person. Yeah, too. So then how
Jennifer Bordeaux: do you switch? 'cause you've also got a couple of children's books I do. Which I assume are not true
Amanda Lamb: crime novels. They're not. They're not.
Although my very first book when I was four was called The Frog Ate the Dog. So I think that was the beginning. The frog gets rid, like, yeah. I always tell people, you know, we all have a lot of different facets to our personality. Right. And so I have written in so many different genres. So I wrote parenting memoirs when my kids were little.
I wrote three parenting memoirs and you know, they're kind of funny. They're kind of Irma Bombach meets David Sedaris. I say that humbly, very humbly. But they're snarky, you know? Right. So they're working mom stuff. Lots [00:31:00] of funny stories. And then I did write one about my mom and caregiving 'cause my mom had brain cancer.
Mm-Hmm. She had a glioblastoma and I was her caregiver. So I wrote a book called The Living Room, a couple of children's books, which, not my forte, but I did have fun and I had good people guiding me on those. And then the true crime books, which were just a natural extension of my job. Right. Yeah.
And then the mysteries, which were just fun, you know, a creative piece for you. Imagine using imagination, pulling from a lot of real stories. Mm-Hmm. I mean, obviously I've been a reporter for 35 years, so more than half my life and. You know, I take a lot of, of, of my fiction comes from real things that happened and then I jump off right into a tangent.
Right, right. You know, so, yeah. So I have a lot of different things I'm interested in. I mean, right now I'm actually starting my own company and I'm working on a couple different podcasts. One called Ageless, about women transforming themselves after 50, which I'm just so fascinated, I have so many friends who have done amazing things, you know?[00:32:00]
Third, fourth careers where they've just started something completely new and taken off and you know, they're just, well, that's inspirational.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: That's great. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause a lot of my. Clients, especially women who grew up in that era where you stayed at home and you didn't work and now we're in their sixties and mm-Hmm.
He wants to separate and what do I do? You know?
Amanda Lamb: And you and you through this whole world up, right? You feel stuck and you feel like you've been left behind. Correct. And you feel like you're not relevant anymore. And in some ways that's the message that the cultural message I
Jennifer Bordeaux: get, the world is not kind to women as
Amanda Lamb: you age, you know?
I have so many friends and that's why I started this. 'cause I have so many friends. I'm like, wow, you're amazing. You go, girl. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. Push clients your way and don't listen to that. And I really, and, and I'm gonna launch that Good. This year in 2024. Excellent. And so I, I really feel strongly that hearing other people's stories can be really inspiring.
Absolutely. Because it's been inspiring to me to hear their stories. Right? Mm-Hmm. I'm like, wow, I could do that. Yeah, I could do that. [00:33:00] Why not? I mean, we can reinvent ourselves. Absolutely. Why not? So good for you.
Jennifer Bordeaux: Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that. So don't be afraid to reinvent yourself and don't kill yourself.
Don't kill your spouse. Divorce them if you don't wanna be with them anymore,
Amanda Lamb: these are the bullet points you take away. We'll put those in the notes, right? Yeah, exactly. Put those in the notes. Yeah. But thank you.
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: I really appreciate it. And your passion. Oh, it's been fun. And your. Support of domestic violence victims.
We're all about that. We support interact. We do Safe child, we do Hope Center. So thank you. We appreciate your voice being out there. That
Amanda Lamb: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, it's been great. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Me absolutely
Elizabeth A. Stephenson: .
And that's some shit.
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